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Get Things Done Part 2

The 10 Rules of Implementation (Getting Things Done Part 2)

Image of Socrates. Title: "THE 10 RULES OF IMPLEMENTATION (Getting Things Done, 2 Part 2)"

How do you go from a great idea to a reality?  Who are the right people to bring in at the right time?  These are the questions we answer!

What you’ll learn in this episode:

  • The 10 You-Do’s and examples of each
  • How to find and talk to the Movers when you’re in the implementation stage
  • One of the biggest challenges in the implementation stage
  • How the Mover is the one who is going to make sure that the WHO-DO Method is used
  • Role reversal in the implementation stage
  • The three sides of the implementation triangle
  • Change: the contextual word that will offend a Shaker
  • What a Shaker can say to a Prover who points out everything that can go wrong with an idea
  • How to solve and address one of the biggest fears between Movers, Shakers, and Provers
  • How a Maker is at ease with the doing the same thing every single day

Are you a Mover, Shaker, Prover, or a Maker? https://thepeoplecatalysts.com/who-do-assessment-welcome/

LinkedIn: Karla Nelson

Listen to the podcast here:

Read Along as Karla and Allen Discuss Implementing Ideas

Karla Nelson:  In order to get things done three to eight times faster, you need to find a mover. This is a person who uses the boundaries between people of different strengths to move the team ahead. If you don’t have this person, nothing of value gets done.

Get a mover. Use the WHO-DO method to become a People Catalyst and change becomes your ally.

And welcome to the People Catalyst podcast. My co-host, Allen Fahden.

Allen Fahden:  Hello, Karla.

Karla Nelson:  Hello. Hello. How are you today?

Allen Fahden:  Life is good. Happy to be here.

Karla Nelson:  Yes, good. Good. And I’m so excited to be doing the part two of how to get things done on the People Catalyst podcast. And as you all know, we talked about in part one, and we didn’t really have enough time in the podcast to cover both the ideation stage as well, as well as the implementation stage.

And these two stages are completely critical in the WHO-DO method, but they’re also very different in how each of those stages are managed. And so if you haven’t listened to how to get things done, part one, you have to go back and listen to it.

But we did have a few listeners ask about the agreements that we discussed. Right. So what we call the ten “You dos” that make that help you with your clients in in engaging in the big picture, especially within the ideation stage.

Fifty-thousand foot view, are also in the implementation stage. So it doesn’t really matter which stage you’re in, but you have to keep in mind that the ten “You dos” are something you must do right within both of these stages,

as different as they are, to be successful with the WHO-DO method. And so how about this, Allen? How about I go ahead and I’ll lay out each of the ten “You dos,” and then you can give an example and the explanation of why we have the agreements with ten “You dos.”

Allen Fahden:  Great idea.

Karla Nelson:  OK, so number one, know thyself mover, shaker, prover or maker.

Allen Fahden:  This is the key to everything. You’ve got to know what your strengths are and what your weaknesses are. If you’re working in your weakness, you go home at the end of the day, drained while you’re doing the work.

You’re slow. You’ve lost your energy and and you’re bored. You’re not liking it. And we want to change the way we work. So each one of us knows whether or Mover, Shaker, a Prover, or a Maker or some combination of two of those or even what we call a Oner, which is a combination of all fours. But that’s only one percent of the population. Know thyself. Know your strengths.

Karla Nelson:  Love that one. It starts there, right. I just remember that quote, I think was Socrates literally the entire quote. Two words. Know thyself. Right. Really important.

  1. And so number two of the ten You dos, is know thy coworker.

Allen Fahden:  And it’s ditto who? So who are you working with? This is this is critical because it’s not only important in communication, not only important in the makeup of the team, but it’s important as to who hands off the work to whom.

And we’ll get into that in number four, about your natural in in our box. But just know this. You’ve got to know who comes next and what you can go to that other person for.

Karla Nelson:  Yes. Oh, I love it. The relay method. And if you haven’t read the white paper, that will help you a lot with number two of the ten you dos. And number three is use your strengths to determine your role.

Allen Fahden:  That’s the most that’s the most ignored part of everything. And that’s why we’re we really need to change the way that we work, because people are forced into roles that they don’t want to be in or they’re not any good at. They’re not naturally good at. And but if you if you change things around where you can actually change the work to fit the people, then you can use your strengths to determine your role. And you should be doing way more of that work. Most people work in their strengths or do your research less than 17 percent of the time. And we should be working 60, 70, even 80 percent of the time.

Karla Nelson:  Nice. And number. Four of the 10 you dos is know your natural inbox and outbox and how they fit with others.

Allen Fahden:  And this is all about fit and sequence. How do people fit together correctly? One of the things happens if you produce an idea, let’s say ideas, your natural inbox, and you take it to a person whose natural inbox is is something that they want to critique. You’re already in trouble. So you want to fit your natural inbox or outbox to the next person’s natural inbox. That’s a great connection. Then the workflows that fit isn’t there.

Things blow up. They have to be started over. You throw away work. It’s a disaster.

Karla Nelson:  Yeah, I love that one. But honestly, number five might be my absolute favorite on the 10 You DOS, which is, “Know, your run home to mommy and be accountable when you do.”

Allen Fahden:  Yeah. And think of your run home to mommy is to actually it’s the same thing is running away from the team. So, for example, I’m a shaker. And so when I get in stress and I got to fix things, then I’ll go off by myself and I’ll start producing ideas.

Well, this doesn’t help anybody because maybe that’s not the phase we’re in. We don’t need ideas. Maybe I need to communicate with the team. Maybe I need to be accountable. Because if there’s a lack of communication, then the team breaks down and a lack of accountability, which is basically, you know, I need to keep my word and deliver what I say I’m going to deliver. Running home to mommy is usually a situation where I’m I’m stressed and I just go back to early behavior and and pretty much blow up the whole thing.

Karla Nelson:  And we all and every single one of our strengths, Allen, has a run home to mommy.

I know as a mover, my run home to mommy is to get so organized, I’m not actually getting much done. Right. Like I’m completely looking at, oh, my gosh, this needs to be organized and these things need to be put in complete sequence.

And at the end of the day, we all have an objective. And there’s some type of a goal associated with it for a Prover a run home to mommy would be just completely obliterated or even think, you know, we’re not even including the secondary strengths here, Alan.

So think about a Prover-Shaker, right? You you yeah. You come up with the idea, right? Every you go through the ideation stage and then you decide what you’re going to move forward with. Right. You get all the way to the prover and all of a sudden they go, oh, my gosh, there’s something wrong with it.

Their secondary strength is a shakr. The likelihood they’re just going to create something else is it’s getting Labrie, right?

Allen Fahden:  It’s a doom loop. They create an idea. They kill it, they create an idea, they kill it, they create an idea. They kill it on and on and on.

Karla Nelson:  And so I love how you put the run home to mommy. Being a part of it is a lack of communication, because you’re saying you’re putting your hand up and say, hey, guys, look, you’re my team, I need to communicate this with you.

Right. And then the accountability to say, guess what, this is what I am, this is who I am, and that’s OK. It’s just that you have to be accountable to the agreements that you’re making.

Allen Fahden:  Let’s not forget, the Makers run home to mommy is the details. I’m going to go into my cubicle and sit here is going to Zimmers, sit by quarterbacks, act like, you know, this is exact. So we we all have we all have our own.

Karla Nelson:  Yeah, I love it. I love it.  And then number six is, “Be concise and don’t grandstand on the You do top ten.”

Allen Fahden:  Oh, yeah. Somebody once said, when I ask you what time it is, I don’t want you to build me a watch. And people can go on and on and on in meetings, demonstrating how much they know and how brilliant they are and why their idea is such a great idea or why they’re playing such a great idea, why their critique is so well informed and well founded. And the the that that just adds to the time and doesn’t convince anybody.

So what’s better is just clear communication. And that’s what the WHO-DO process really allows for. And it actually makes it makes happen because we mostly cut all that out. Nonetheless, we should be aware and think if there’s a chance you’re grandstanding, I might say here’s two ideas. And does anybody need to know more about them or are they clear? Boom. No grandstanding.

Karla Nelson:  Yeah. Yeah. And especially, you know, number six is a slightly difference in the ideation stage. Versus the implementation stage, where they’re the same, but different in the fact that when you have your team and you’re trying to decide on an idea that , yeah, you’re right, you don’t need a ton of information. You’re right, because at the end of the day, the mover is actually deciding the, you know, the the best idea or collection of ideas or the prioritization of a collection of ideas.

Whereas when you look at the implementation stage, the one thing I love about that is that you can really, truly separate the Shakers and the Provers. So when I go to a, or the Shakers in the Provers, when I go to the Shaker, you don’t have to tell me like a million things about the idea, because without the prover, you’re you know, you might have picked the best idea. But you’re it’s like you’re still going to go through this entire process. Right. And saying, hey, what are the big picture aspects? It doesn’t matter what part of the process that you’re in.

And so until you actually get to the maker, grandstanding doesn’t really have a place in the process and grandstanding doesn’t at all. But still, you’re not even into the granular details on either side of it. Right, to even speak to the point of saying.

And in this regard, grandstanding, saying I’m just taking up time. Right. It’s not necessarily I’m trying to prove a point. Or maybe it is. You know, here’s the best idea. I’m trying to prove a point or here’s all the things that you didn’t think about.

I’m trying to prove a point. But at the end of the day, it’s how do you get this thing accomplished? Right. And what are the details, which doesn’t include somebody owning it so much that there are, quote unquote, grandstanding?

Allen Fahden:  Yeah. And then number seven, respect the Maker’s desire to stay out of the initial meetings. Oh, I love this one. Well, this is this is funny, because when we’re together with the groups, we always ask the makers, do you even want to be in this ideation meeting and raise your hand if you’d rather be not in the meeting and going and doing something else, that might be real work.

Karla Nelson:  Every hand comes up. I love it. And and the funny thing is, the almost the entire room erupts in laughter.

Allen Fahden:  And and let’s remember, the human organism is attracted to pleasure and repelled by pain and to a maker, these ideation meetings are nothing but pain. You know, people are throwing out these ideas that are unfounded and all they can see is, oh, that’s going to ruin everything. That’s a disruption to the system. How can we fit that in?

We don’t we never that we’ll have to hire temps. We’ve never done that with the loading dock before and so forth. So it’s just nothing but pain for them. And you might even say in the implementation phase that the Shaker when you get into all those details in the implementation phase, it’s a Shaker’s is the one who for most of the meeting doesn’t want to be there.

Karla Nelson:  Mm hmm. Yeah, that’s very true. Why? Because you’re getting into the details. Yes. Right. And you’re trying to get all the T’s crossed, the I’s dotted and make sure now.

Yeah, it’s boring. Now, here’s the balance. And that’s why I think that six is a balance, because we’re saying, hey, don’t grandstand to the point. You own it to a certain degree. But at at the end of the day, you have to balance pulling in each side on what their input is.

Right. So if I go to a shaker and I go, oh, my gosh, I’ve got this problem and we picked this idea, we need to get it implemented and we’re hitting this roadblock. What are the things how do you think we could overcome that?

They’re going to naturally go. Ba, ba, ba, ba, ba, ba, ba, ba, ba, ba. But you can’t pull them into then talking to the prover and going, wow, you know what? I think this is how we can overcome it.

What do you think we need to look at associated with this? Yeah. Because there’s so that as you implement and that’s what we’re talking about in this podcast, as you implement the level of data associated with it is just it’s just at a higher stake.

It’s not fifty thousand. You get down to twenty five thousand and then ten thousand and then five thousand. Right. And then you’re flying above five hundred feet above the ground. Those are all different under the radar. Yeah, exactly.

What you’re under the radar. The shaker’s like, are you kidding me? Unless you have like a dire situation that they need to overcome. Right, where they need to come in with some type of a solution. The likelihood you’re going to pull them into what you’re doing is just it’s not going to be their natural strength.

Allen Fahden:  Right. So, yeah. And then number eight, trust the. Process and don’t let anyone derail it. Even those in authority. Yes. The person who signs the check or the person who’s your boss will often feel like they’ve earned the right to come in and and kind of trash everything everybody’s doing. And listen to me. This is important.

Karla Nelson:  And depending on their strength. Oh, my gosh. How many times this has been a disaster for us or any of our trainers.

Allen Fahden:  And you can’t you can’t tell them to be quiet. It can’t get up and leave the room. Anything is rude and insubordination. But what you can do is make agreements in advance to do this and then talk about the consequences. You know, you do want us to get this done and perform and find out what’s important to that person and then have them leaving you alone at the right time or being involved, but subscribing to the process.

Karla Nelson:  Yeah, and that’s the first part, right? Trust the process. And then don’t let anyone derail it. Even those in authority. And so, yeah, the best thing you can do sometimes is get that exactly.

Does take courage. And and you have to have that conversation before going into working with this team is the fact that I get it. You’re in charge or quote unquote, you’re paying the bill or anyone else, for that matter of fact. Right. It’s just that that tends to be the majority of the individual that doesn’t continue to keep the agreement or in lack of an agreement has is the most challenging to deal with. But, you know, trusting the process. Go ahead.

Allen Fahden:  When you’re in the meeting, it’s a lot easier to say and to hear from the person in authority. “Remember the agreement we made,” as opposed to “Shut up! You’re derailing the whole meeting.” It’s just the nicer conversation.

Karla Nelson:  Yeah. Remember the agreement we made? Exactly. Awesome. And then number nine, which is stay in your own lane. Biggy, biggy. This is one of my biggies.

Allen Fahden:  And it’s so funny because we violate that just as much as anybody else. When you’re doing going get pretty close and I go, oh, I got an idea. I got an idea. Yeah, well, three of our main master trainers with trainers all the time. And we’ve got a major Shaker, a major Mover, and a major Prover.

Karla Nelson:  And frequently we have to keep ourselves to stay in our own lanes. And worse. Go ahead. Well, and we’re really fighting everything we’ve learned by being in the workplace, you know, it’s like, you know, the old saw is, well, if you’re not part of the solution, you’re part of the problem.

Allen Fahden:  So in other words, we think that if we have a problem, we have to immediately solve it ourselves. Well, that puts a terrible stress on provers, for example, because we’re just saying, tell us everything can go wrong. No, don’t solve it. Just tell us what can go wrong. It’s just an idea. We’re going to write it down and we’re going to have a Shaker or solve it. Well, we’ve all been had a drum into our heads. If we raise a problem, we’re a bad person if we don’t provide a solution.

So instead, say to the prover. Just hold on to that solution. And if the group can’t come up with anything better, then we’ll then we’ll bring it out. Yes, exactly. And then I love the last one, because this comes up so frequently, especially with one of the major communication points we’ve had in the past couple of years in regards to college educations and how we’re preparing our workforce. But number 10, move all work from function management to role management.

Yeah, and that’s a you know, if we can’t understand the category that we’re dealing in or the status quo that we’re replacing, that it’s going to be very hard to get anything, anything new or origina done. In this case, we need a language so that we can we can address the way we work for the last hundred and fifty years. Function management. What does that mean? Here’s your job. Here’s your function. You do it from beginning to end.

So no matter how terrible you might be at the beginning and how great you might be at the end, still do it from beginning to end. Well, it makes no sense. And and we’ve demonstrated that time, time and again is if you work in your strength, it goes much better.

So why not instead of managing the functions of these individuals, instead manage their roles as a team? So you’re actually restacking the deck, so to speak, or redealing the cards so that you are spending instead of 15 percent of your time and your strength, you’re spending 60, 70, 80, 90 percent of your time and your strengths and everything goes three to eight times faster, change from function management to role management. It’s a transformation of the way we work. And watch what happens to your culture when it happens. Watch what happens to your performance as a business.

Karla Nelson:  Watch what happens to your H.R. department right when you’re not looking at, oh, this is what somebody went to school for. But it’s like, no, this isn’t part of the work that they’re best at and then apply their education and their knowledge to it’s incredible.

So in the in part one, we really did talk about, Alan, about finding the movers in order to get things done. Right, because they are the catalysts. Right. In order to get things started, having somebody say yes to your idea.

And then, you know, for the purpose of today’s podcast, we talked earlier and we want to specifically discuss on how to find and talk to the movers when you’re trying to get things done in the implementation stage, because previously we talked about the ideation stage, which is very different in regards to the roles of each of the team members. And one of the big challenge in the implementation stages, in a close word to it, actually is interpretation. So this is when communication is absolutely critical. I think you talked in the first podcast, Allen, that you said this is when it goes to command and control.

Right. Right. So in addition, you can’t get to implementation unless you found the mover in ideation. So if you haven’t listened to part one, go back and make sure you listen to that and how to find the mover and work through the ideation stage or stage.

But for the purpose of part two on how to get things done, you still have to find the mover because it’s the mover that’s going to make sure that the WHO-DO method is used and to ensure that the process is used effectively and efficiently and with the least amount of chaos.

So for our time with everyone today, we’re going to talk about the implementation phase. And this comes after the ideation phase or stage and after the decision is made on how to move forward. So what we need to talk about right now is the challenge of the implementation stage with each strength involved.

Allen Fahden:  And there’s an irony here, and that is the roles are reversed. When you switch to implementation, the roles within the concept phase, which is about revenue, innovation and getting something new done well will be. And getting your idea, as opposed to a flip flop to the implementation stage.

Now, that’s all about instead of revenue, it’s about profitability. And instead of about innovation, it’s about replication doing the same thing over and over again. You’ve got to be able to do the same thing over and over again. That you can make money in order to be profitable. So the real leaders on the concept stage are the concepts. These are the movers and shakers. Now, listen carefully. In the implementation stage, the leaders are the provers and the maker.

The whole thing turns on its head now. And who doesn’t want to be in the meeting during the implementation stage? We talk about that. You know, that was what we talked about earlier, was the maker didn’t want to be in the meeting during the ideation stage of the implementation stage is the Shaker or who doesn’t want to be the leader now? Of course, is is the prover, because the prover stands in between the mover and the maker. So we call it the implementation triangle. In in the first stage, the triangle was the shaker, the mover, and the Provers, a mover who was the negotiator between the Shakr and the prover.

Now it’s the prover who’s the negotiator between the mover and the maker. OK. So. The. The the triangle is very important here, because Shaker’s not in not in the meeting. And so and they can be brought in in case something they need to my ideas to get them unstuck.

But then those ideas are going to have to go to the mover. So it’s the mover who then stands with one foot out the door ready to negotiate with the Shaker or if if need be. I know it sounds a little bit of a little bit complicated, but

Karla Nelson:  That’s because it’s an art and a science. Science is one hundred and twenty years old, but the art is balancing everything associated with it. And so, you know, it reminds me, Allen, of the old process, which is, you know, number one get mad. Number two, act out.

Number three, repeat. Yeah. So, yeah, you know, there’s a way that each of these strengths get offended or triggered. Right. And this is what they do. And then it’s this is what they should do. Right. So this is what we’ve done in the past.

This is what we should do based off of getting the ultimate goal accomplished. Right. And with Shaker’s, you know, if you. Oh, my gosh. If you go to a shaker and you’ve taken any part of what they created and you’ve changed it.

Right. You know, like you’ve taken their their baby and like completely changed the face of their baby. Right. So the contextual word to offend a shaker really is change. Yes. Now to be differentiated. They love change as long as they create the change.

Allen Fahden:  Don’t you dare change what I’ve created. Something is already created. Don’t you dare change it. And in fact, I have a friend who was an advertising writer and he was so offended when somebody would want to mess with him or mess with his ideas that he would actually present his written advertising copy on a sheet with his big headline on it. And the big headline said, don’t you dare change a word of this. So that’s how offended people. People can actually get when this happens. Now, the beautiful thing is you don’t have to be that well defended because you have some magic words here you can use, and that is with the prover.

Who’s going to who what? First of all, the Prover is going to hear the details of your ideas so they can pick it apart. And once you give them the details, so it’s their duty to tell you what’s going to go wrong.

Well, the shaker’s offended by this. So what the shakr can say is instead of fighting about it and saying, please be specific. OK, now we won’t be specific, number two. Bring me the problem and and just give me the problem and I’ll come back with the solution to the problem. Now, this is headed off by the WHO-DO method because it’s the Mover who stands in between the Prover and the Shaker. But there’s a way for all you mover’s. That’s the way to deal with a with a Shaker and a Prover or the Prover needs to be specific and bring only the problems.

That gives the shaker an opportunity to solve those problems and still have it be their own idea.

Karla Nelson:  Yeah. And refer back to trust the process. That’s okay, because everybody you have to make it agree with, but you have to trust it. Right. And so as a mover, one of the things you’re going to offend a mover with and as we’ve said, this is the linchpin, right? This is the person that makes ideas go forward and that say yes to ideas that can really be that, quote unquote, monkey in the middle.

Right. That that can balance the two. But if it’s taking too much time, if you’re not hitting the deadlines, you know, movers do not want the 100 percent solution. They want the 80 percent and build on it so that we can hit the deadline so we can get what needs to be done.

And while the Shakers in the Provers are frustrated, right. The movers are committed to like this was the doing aspect of what we agreed to. This was the solution we agreed to. And of course, the Shakers hate it when their idea is altered or adjusted or, you know, like hopefully not killed. But I guarantee you, that actually happens in many organizations. And then the Provers hate it when their analysis gets ignored or disrespected. And and we’re not even going into secondary strengths here. But the the mover is really in between the aspect of the shakers who are creating the ideas and the provers that are figuring out all the things that could go wrong with the ideas. Right. Yep. And the way to solve this is by addressing one of the biggest fears. And that is like, well, if you say what’s wrong with that idea, it’s going to get killed or it’s going to get changed or it’s going to get dumbed down.

Allen Fahden:  And I’m stuck with it. And that’s my reputation as we as we talked about before. So the way to say that to to solve that is is to is to commit to changing it down the road. In other words, saying, look, we need to get this out right now. This is a temporary solution. And once this blows over this emergency, we can go back and we can change it and we can work it out and make sure that the idea has all the integrity that you want it to have.

So because Shakers want the best 100 percent idea and provers want to ensure that 100 percent that nothing will go wrong, you go to nothing. Yeah, exactly. Like two opposites of the same. Yeah. Built in conflict and and mover’s. You just want to get on with it, so to speak. They want the 80 percent. What can we 80 percent solution that we can implement right now? We can move ahead right now. So the answer to this is to show the shakr and prover. They’re not stuck with the outcome that we don’t want and we can change it down the road. This actually happened with one of our clients who was trying to get a competitive product launched. And the R&D group were mostly shakers.

And for some reason they didn’t know why, but they couldn’t even get the Shakers to do a schedule on getting a new product created, what they’re trying to do. Their strategy was to create a me-too product, kind of a knockoff, and to go mess up the test markets of a competitor with a similar product.

So they would screw up all their data. They could do this really fast, but the R&D people didn’t want to do it. So part of that was understanding Shakers and saying and they said, we’re not going to do substandard work, we’re not going to do a me-too product that’s beneath us.

Why would we do that?

Karla Nelson:  Yeah, on both sides of it.

Allen Fahden:  And so the fact that No. One, this is only temporary, started to move them off the door. Now, there was another piece, too. And here’s a handy little piece. I just happened to be right after the Super Bowl where the L.A. Rams at the last minute beat the Tennessee Titans in the Super Bowl by defending tackling a guy at the one yard line who was about to score the winning touchdown.

And so Kurt Warner, the quarterback, was the hero of that Super Bowl. He staged a big comeback. But but so I remember that we asked. OK, who is the real hero, is it Kurt Warner who staged the comeback or was it the guy who made the tackle that saved the touchdown that would have lost the game?

In other words, can you see your way clear to playing defense? Some of the time, as well as just offense. But those two things together, they had a big Ah-Ha. Boom than an implementation schedule in the next 30 minutes.

And off they went, because then they could. OK, we can change it. We’re not stuck with this. And we can do our magic later on.

Karla Nelson:  It’s a balance of offense and defense. And sometimes, you know, in business, you get this all the time where it’s, you know, sales or ops. Right. Or it’s this or that. And truly, when you’re you typically have very different strengths that navigate towards, you know, different departments within an organization based off their strengths. And instead of seeing themselves as a complete team, they see themselves as adversaries versus allies.

Allen Fahden:  Oh, definitely. The front of the office versus the back of the office.

Karla Nelson:  Yeah. And they need each other. Right. It’s like and I love the quote that we always use, which is we need you all. We just don’t need you at the same time.

Yeah. And one of the things that we forget about sometimes is, you know, the maker. Right. So the maker is absolutely Covid. Everyone is critical. The maker is critical as well. They just don’t tend to want they don’t want at all to be in the ideation stage.

And then when you move into the implementation stage, unless you’ve really gone through the process quite a few times to flesh out the details right where there’s no unknowns, this is the point where we come about and we go, this is what’s going to happen.

And these are the checklist that needs to happen. And this is what you’re going to do. And this is when you’re going to do it. And this is who is going to be involved. That’s really when you bring your maker in in your maker is somebody who is very at ease with doing the same thing every single day. And they go home. And that’s if you walk through the office and you see the people whose desk is like absolutely, completely perfect when they go home for the day. And the likelihood that they’re a Maker is probably pretty likely.

And for them, you know, the challenge that they have in their you know, when they feel offended is when you bring them into a situation where they feel like that you’re taking their time away from the quote unquote, real work.

Right. All the stuff that’s already working. Right. It’s like, what are you doing? You’re working on something new and a new adventure. We’ve got these things that are already working in these things that need to be done. And they really see this as being risky and not in their wheelhouse.

Allen Fahden:  Those are the people who invented the. If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it for you. And to especially the Shakers, the shakers and makers are from other planets and from different planets. Very true. And so so you want to be very careful with the maker, and that is to to understand them as best you can and don’t go to them with an idea. An idea is a dangerous thing. But when all the details are all fleshed out, then it’s a strategy. It’s a tactical plan. That’s a different thing, because they want to look at it in relation to the system.

They want to be able to make sure it fits into the system and that that the details are all fleshed out and they don’t feel like it’s too risky. And just to show you how different these people are, I remember we were doing some designing some baseball caps with the client at one time and, you know, took

them through the process and all the ideas were great. And we actually decided to test them. So we tested them in a shopping mall. And then we’re going to take our feedback and finish the process, and so we had a I was talking to the maker on the thing and I said, have the test go.

And he said it went great. He says, a couple these designs really blew the doors off and. And he told me which one, and that was one I really liked. And I said, great. So what’s next? He was in charge of the charge. The cafe said, how many are you going to produce? He says, we’re not going to produce any more of those. And I said, Yeah, but didn’t you just tell me it tested really well? He says, Yeah, that’s the problem. I said, What do you mean? He said, well, if we order if we order some of those, I’m just going to have to keep ordering them again.

Karla Nelson:  That reminds me of the other person who said like, remember part one? So if you haven’t listened to part one of this podcast is there is someone who basically can buy confided and said, oh, well, I act like I don’t understand just simply so I don’t have to do this. Hmm.

Allen Fahden:  Yeah. The the the company. Who is that? That is kind of a trademark defense of a of a maker is to say, I don’t get it. And so what happens is that about half the people in the room what explain it to the maker and then the maker kind of goes. He chuckles at it. Then at one time, explain somebody on the side is this is where do you keep saying, I don’t get it? Do you really not get it? I said, no, I get it. Why are you saying that then?

Oh, because the time they take to explain it to me is time not spent implementing the idea that I don’t want to implement the world’s greatest delaying tactic.

Karla Nelson:  Yeah. It’s just so disruptive right there. Like you’ve got to keep your in.

Thank goodness for makers. Right? All of us are needed. We’re just needed at different times. And if we didn’t have the makers, we really wouldn’t have those workhorses. But at the same time, they’re going to lean themselves to their strengths and then also keep themselves from having to do anything outside of the ordinary. Right. And so we all have our there’s the run home to mommy for the makers. Right. By the way, I’d you know what you just said. I don’t get it. I just to make you explain it. Well, never mind.

Yeah, exactly. Thanks. I’m glad you jumped in there as the maker. But you do have to be prepared. You have to be prepared as a leader for all of the different strengths. You know, like you said, even we sometimes as our master trainer group goes out and guess what? We might have a really long term training and we can’t deny who we are right in there. And so being aware of each is you just have to be aware and have to be aware of the language. And it’s kind of interesting because depending if you’re somebody who’s an early adopter and probably a little bit more risk comfortable or late adopter, more risk adverse, I really love this great quote by Michael Jordan, which says, you know, nobody ever scored a shot, that they didn’t take that at the end of the day, take the shot. You figure it out.

You figure out who’s on your team. You know, you try to figure out who’s, you know, what their strengths are, how you can be more effective in your business. And at the end of the day, I hope that you make it.

Allen Fahden:  Yep. Just and just take, you know, as the great movie. What about Bob? Who is Bill Murray and Richard Dreyfuss? Baby Steps? You know, the psychiatrist was a jerk, but he had the greatest book that I’ll ever date. You can do this. All of you were listening. You can do this. Just take baby steps. Take a step at a time. You know, do something. See what you did. Commit to it. Do the next thing. And pretty soon, you’re pretty far down the road before you even know it.

I love it. Awesome. Well, I always enjoy our time together. And then part two is awesome because we didn’t even plan out what we were going to talk about. We just kind of came out of part one on how to get things done.  And it’s always a pleasure to work through this with you, Allen, and our listeners. And looking forward to our next podcast. Already you have a good day. You, too. Bye.


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