Your goal: Win Friends and Influence People! 

The Reality: You Wound Friends and Incinerate People. 

How can you make reality meet your goal? 

 Dale Carnegie has had a profound impact on businesses and relationships since 1934. Is there any way to improve on his Gold Rule?  Would you like to learn the Platinum Rule?  Join Karla and Allen as they explore How To Win Friends and Influence People using The WHO-DO Method.

Want to know if you are a Mover, Shaker, Prover, or Maker?  Take The WHO-DO Assessment.

Listen to the podcast here:     

HOW TO WOUND FRIENDS AND INCINERATE PEOPLE   

Karla Nelson:  And welcome to The People Catalysts podcast, my friend, Allen Fahden. 

Allen Fahden:  Hello, Karla. 

Karla Nelson:  Good day, sir. How are you? 

Allen Fahden:  Good day too. Well, I’m excited about doing this because this is very different. 

Karla Nelson:  Yeah, it is very different. One of my favorite books and I’m excited about talking about it. It was fun going … Again, going back through it, the series has been fantastic. All books that we appreciate and have read in the past and it’s interesting putting a different layer, a different view with identifying The WHO-DO Method and how to pretty much put gasoline and a match and understand how you can use what’s in the book to get to the how. 

And so for today, we are going to be talking about the world famous book, How to Win Friends and Influence People. However, the title of our podcast is, How to Wound Friends and Incinerate People. 

Allen Fahden:  Because like with all the other books that we talked about, it’s a great book but it’s missing some stuff. And the missing things can be quite damaging if you don’t pay attention to them. 

Karla Nelson:  Mm-hmm (affirmative) because people are different. 

Allen Fahden:  Different. 

Karla Nelson:  And also tactics. This book is definitely jam packed through with a ton of tactics and it was written in 1934 by Dale Carnegie. It has sold over 15 million copies worldwide and it’s kind of interesting. Dale Carnegie is an interesting guy, man. I think the reason why I don’t always talk about the author specifically, but when we get into these books like Think and Grow Rich and in this, How to Win Friends and Influence People, you’re talking about 1934, different time. 

I want to talk a little bit about Dale Carnegie and where he came from, and then also a little bit about the timeframe of when the book came out and what the world was like then and why the book was so revolutionary to this day. However, at the time, it’s like, “Whoa.” But Dale Carnegie, he was a poor farmer’s son, but he still did go to college. And right out of college, he went into sales, ended up selling bacon and soap and lard for armoring company, which actually is a company that’s still around today. 

What I thought was so interesting about him, he was the ultimate sales guy. We definitely probably have a mover on our hands here. A lot of people get him mixed up and thinking that he was related to Andrew Carnegie, the steel tycoon, but he changed the spelling of his name from C-A-R-N-A-G-E-Y to Carnegie, which was the same as Andrew’s, C-A-R-N-E-G-I-E. 

I was like that, I never knew that before, but I picked up that little piece of information and I just thought, “Wow, what an interesting ultimate sales guy,” to think of that back in 19 … Probably, it could have been prior to 1934. I don’t know what the timeframe is, but definitely the ultimate salesperson. 

Allen Fahden:  Yeah. I would have wanted to have bought my lard from him. 

Karla Nelson:  Yeah, exactly. But the book was really revolutionary for its time. I mean, think about 1934 and what was happening. Working was more of a dream than a reality. In 1929, the unemployment rate was 3.2%. And then in 1933, it grew to 24.9% and 12.8 million people were out of work. Think about that. It’s crazy, huh? 

Allen Fahden:  Yeah. 

Karla Nelson:  And so most Americans, they fed their families through temporary day labor jobs. They basically would go to farms and then work on a farm for the day and hopefully cross your fingers, you had some work. But then of course, the drought came and I’m sure most people have seen the … There’s a documentary called Dust Bowl. 

A lot of people move to big cities and that’s when they start working in manufacturing because manufacturing jobs started popping up. And so 6% of the population at the time were professionals, and really think about who this is driven towards. 

Allen Fahden:  Yeah. It’s amazing. 

Karla Nelson:  Actually, and then just think about Great Depression, people just wanted to make money. This book was really written at a different time in a unique time in history and there was a different generation, different values. I think a part of it is I love the behavioral techniques in this book. At first, it was hilarious that I thought, “Oh, this book is written for movers.” I was like, “No, it’s actually movers have more of a natural ability to it. It’s actually written more for the introverts.” They give you these behavioral techniques because you don’t want to tick people off. 

That’s absolutely true, and I love that about the book. But you know what, I don’t think … And I think what’s missing is that that’s not enough when the object of the exercise is to get something done. You can’t fake it, and if you understand somebody’s core nature of work over each of these tactics, then you can have an understanding of who they are, have some grace for what they’re good at and what they’re not good at. 

Allen Fahden:  Yeah. One way to look at this book is it’s a great baseline. I mean, if you’re treating people badly and you can change your behavior just in what you say and what you do to treat them well, that’s great. However, you can go a lot farther and we know that today. 

And so it’s good to treat people well, but what’s better is holding them in their brilliance, their excellence in getting things done. But I liked a lot of the stuffs in there when they were talking about the language, how to sort of soften the language and be a little more polite about it and that’s great. 

Now one of the things, one of the dangers in there look something like this. I remember when I was working for a large advertising agency and they had put the account people through a similar kind of a training. The account people used to go to the creative people and say, “That’s a terrible idea. Why don’t you get your work done?” “Oh, that’s …” And the creative people hated this. 

They put the account people through a training and one day, an account person came in and instead of saying what they usually say, they said, “I have a concern about that idea. I have a concern,” And so it’s like, “What?” And the creative, if they just kept repeating this, “Well, yeah, but I have a bit of a concern about that.” 

And so after a couple of weeks to this, one of the guys I worked with, a couple of account people came into his office looking for his deadline and they have to meet to have his work done. And he says, “Oh, Steve, Judy, come on in and pull up a concern and sit down.” 

Karla Nelson:  Can’t get any more flippant than that. It’s like, “Oh, you’re selling me a line of bull.” You know what I mean? It’s just not genuine to say that. That’s the thing. 

Allen Fahden:  It kind of reminds me of a book that I think we both read at one time or another, a very popular book by J. D. Salinger called Catcher in the Rye. 

Karla Nelson:  Oh, a good one. 

Allen Fahden:  Holden Caulfield, the lead character, was just always talking about everybody as these phonies, “Wow, look at that guy? What a funny bastard he is.” On the other hand, this does teach you to be polite, but just don’t take it too far. As one of the observations I’ve always enjoyed is that the word polite, the root of that word is also the root word of police and of politics. Polite, police, politics. 

Karla Nelson:  Yeah. And everybody likes politics, right?  

I agree with you, polite is awesome. I really enjoy polite people. I like being polite, but guess what? Politically correct, I actually love people who are real versus politically correct. I want people to say what they think. I want them to have the freedom to be who they are. If you really, it’s like you want to be polite, but you don’t want to be fake. And I think there’s a real slippery slope on that one. 

When you talk about politics, think about Washington D.C. Does that give you a warm fuzzy feeling about how all that stuff? Especially, gosh today’s day and age, you can’t even read the news. It’s like that’s all it is. Everybody’s positioning and everybody’s trying to win somebody over and get them on their side. And it’s just like, it feels very icky, and it feels very … What’s the word? Disingenuine. 

I think that’s like it’s great to be polite. It’s great to treat people with respect. You can’t push it so far that it’s politics. Gosh, that’s two sides of the same coin, and that’s a very thin coin. 

Allen Fahden:  Yes. The other way you can’t push it too far as to become not just phony, but kind of like greasy phony. I’ll give you one of my favorite examples. Eddie Haskell from Leave It to Beaver. He was Wally Cleaver’s friend and we know he’s going and say, “Mrs. Cleaver, what a flattering dress. You look so wonderful today.” “Why, thank you, Eddie.” 

Karla Nelson:  He was so annoying. I mean, he’d always said the right thing and then he was like the biggest- 

Allen Fahden:  He’s totally insincere. 

Karla Nelson:  Yeah. Well, he was always the one getting everybody into trouble. 

Allen Fahden:  He’s hypocritical as well, yes. 

Karla Nelson:  Yeah. And I think the other thing about it, and again, love the book. Again, I thought it was written for movers. It’s actually written for introvert to give them some help, because not everybody understands the object of the exercise is to get something done and understanding that somebody’s core nature of work and their brilliance within that work. 

But so many books, even we just did Think and Grow Rich, which talked about the mastermind. We just did First Things First, which talks about synergy. I think the other piece is that this is kind of a two-dimensional tactic where there is no synergistic application of politeness. 

Again, the object of the exercise in business is to get something done. And so I can make somebody like me all day long and I would probably say in a sales situation or with customers that’s different. I’m actually talking about in the context of working with your team and getting things done in business is that you really have to focus on how each core nature of work wants to be communicated with and appreciated for like what are your talents and what’s your contribution? 

How about we go through each core nature of work just to give our listeners an idea about how they want to be appreciated for. That sound good? 

Allen Fahden:  Good one. 

Karla Nelson:  Okay. Well, this will be an easy one for you. Shaker, how do you like to be appreciated? 

Allen Fahden:  “Hey, Al, great idea. Wonderful solution. That was brilliant.” Yeah. Shakers love to be praised for their ideas. They like to be listened to. They like to be held in their magnificence as a thinker and especially an out-of-the-box thinker. 

Karla Nelson:  Yes. They like appreciated for all the different ideas. 

Allen Fahden:  Yes. Useful ideas. Not just ideas for their own sake, but something that’s really going to move the needle. 

Karla Nelson:  Yes. And the other pieces, and I would say the opposite of that is what we often do instead of that. We’ll do the opposite. I didn’t think about this, but the opposite is what do we do? We look at a shaker and we go, “Squirrel! Oh, your head is in the clouds.” “Gosh, you’re such a dreamer.” And so what do you want to be appreciated for and what do we typically do? To be aware of that and then apply it to the tactics in the book. 

Okay. A mover, how do you think a mover … And I would answer this, but I’m just curious. 

Allen Fahden:  I know. Exactly. You can answer this way better than I can, but a mover that loves to be appreciated for their core nature, which is to move things ahead. How do you do that? You set priorities. You make a plan. You enroll everybody in your plan. You check it out. You make sure it gets done. 

Karla Nelson:  Gosh, you hit the nail. That’s exactly what I would say. After you set the priorities, the best way is you need almost zero to actually as far as feedback like words. The way that a mover feels appreciated is that when we choose the idea and we set the priorities, that you work through the priorities from the priority that starts with all the way down. And that if you have a challenge, come back and figure it out so that we can hit the goal and hit the deadline and work synergistically with the entire group. 

I think a mover feels very appreciated for the time that they take to figure out and facilitate what we’re going to do and then handing off actually getting it done. And so movers, they don’t have a dog in the fight is like I have to say. They don’t care whose idea it is. They just want to get something done that’s a great idea that’s going to move the needle forward. 

All right, so a prover, how does the prover like to be appreciated for their talents and contribution? Oh, wait a second, I didn’t say. In a mover, by the way, what we typically do is we go, “Gosh, you’re so bossy. Do you always have to be in charge?” And it’s so funny because everybody will say, “Wow, do you always have to be in charge? Do you always have to be the leader?” 

But yet every meeting you go to, what are you the one doing? Taking the notes, facilitating the meeting. Everybody looks to you to do it and then they’re like pointing at you like, “Why do you always have to be in charge?” It’s like, “Because I’m not going to be in the meeting unless it’s a fruitful meeting.” Because that’s a disengagement. There’s the opposite of what we do instead of appreciating the talent. 

So, prover, appreciation of talents and contributions. 

Allen Fahden:  A prover has a great knack to be able to see around corners and tell you everything that’s going to go wrong. And now that kind of seems like that person is playing the prince of darkness when they do that, but they’re not because what they’re actually doing is presencing flaws in the idea. This is part of The WHO-DO Method so that they can be fixed in concept form. 

That means you haven’t built anything you have to throw away. You can actually think an idea through. You can improve an idea simply by pointing out the flaws and then having the shaker come up with ideas to correct the flaws. A prover, one way to hold them in their excellence is say, “Okay, have at it because I’m sure you’re sitting here thinking of all these ways in which reality can adversely affect us and all the ways you can get in trouble. So, tell us how we’re going get in trouble so we can avoid that harm.” 

Karla Nelson:  Exactly, and love him for it. And what do we typically do? We typically go, “Gosh, you’re such a downer. You’re such an Eeyore. Gosh, you’re such a pessimist.” 

Allen Fahden:  You just saved our butts but you’re a pessimist. Come on. 

Karla Nelson:  Exactly. Okay, makers, how do makers like to be appreciated for their talents and contribution? 

Allen Fahden:  We got to talk about the prover’s downside too. 

Karla Nelson:  Well no, no. What we call them, I did. So what we typically say is Eeyore and rightly- 

Allen Fahden:  Oh, you got that. Okay, good. I was so excited about that, that I didn’t realize what we were doing. 

Karla Nelson:  Well, I think because the poor provers have it the hardest. The provers are the ones that, I’ll never forget when we did that training and it was like one of the aha says, “Wow, provers aren’t so bad after all.” It’s like there really is, I feel poorly for them because they’re so brilliant in what they do and they’re given a real hard time because they are later adopters and because they are thinkers and they want to poke all the holes into it. And so I think that they’re the one of the most underutilized assets within all the core natures of work. 

Allen Fahden:  Actually, they’re among the most responsible of the people because what they’re really doing is warning everyone of impending danger. They have a lot of courage to do that. 

Karla Nelson:  Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Love it. Okay, so maker, let’s move on to that. How does the maker like to be appreciated for their talents and contribution? 

Allen Fahden:  I think we had coined a phrase a long time ago, it’s not innovation until it gets out the door. And the maker is the great finisher. It’s a person who can do the details and the person who could take a checklist and as you say, eat that checklist for breakfast. They can get the stuff done. When people say focus, well the maker naturally focuses. Don’t try to get a shaker or a mover to focus so much on the details when the maker is the lord of the details. They’re a great finisher and also they don’t want to be in the meeting because- 

Karla Nelson:  Yeah, you could appreciate them just by saying, “Go ahead and go do some real work while we work on this stuff.” How many times … That’s like every time we’ve done a training, “Okay, who’s the maker? Raise their hand.” It’s like, “Who doesn’t want to be in the meeting? They’re the maker.” 

Allen Fahden:  All of them raise their hand again. And it’s also, another reason they don’t want to be in the meeting is that it’s like every idea is a threat to things running smoothly. And so we’re actually causing them pain by demanding that they’d be in the meeting. And what you get in return when you appreciate a maker for their brilliance is you get a lot of things done and you get an ability nobody else has, which is to see things in such great detail. 

They can point out flaws in an idea. “We’ve never used the loading dock to take things in before we’ve just sent things out. Where were we going to put it?” They’ll find details that nobody’s ever thought about because they fly so close to the ground, they can see everything. 

Karla Nelson:  They really like, because they’re natural doers, they do like being appreciated for just execution. Execution is like, “Oh, my gosh.” And every day being able to execute specifically and to what you ask them. Now, the other way you can appreciate them is give them very specific details. Don’t make them come up with how. Tell them what to do. The feedback is a little bit closer to the radar. Listen to it. But don’t give them, “Hey, I need this and I need it by Friday,” with nothing else besides that. They’re just going to sweat. 

You could be as nice and like them as much, you’re just … And they probably won’t say anything, because they’re doers. They’re just going to go back to their desk and go, “Oh, my gosh, this is crazy.” 

Allen Fahden:  It’s best to have a prover give them the instruction because a prover has the patience to get into the kind of detail that they need in order to do their job. 

Karla Nelson:  Yeah. And a maker, typically what we look at and I, gosh, before I understood this process, I was so bad about this because remember movers and makers are what we call red light relationship, is we would be in meetings and I would be like, “How do you never have anything to say?” For me, and I didn’t know it was a very curious question. 

Those are the kinds of things that we look at a maker and go, “Wow, you have no unique thoughts? Why do you never have anything to input here?” Because in their mind, they don’t want to be in the meeting. They just want to be eating their checklists and getting things accomplished and doing the real work instead of the disruption that they feel when you’re talking about how you can do things better or maybe a new initiative or whatever the many, many things that you would be having a meeting for. 

Allen Fahden:  Yeah. We actually had a great example of a prover today. We were in a meeting, you and I, and the Uber prover on our team and we said, “Hey, let’s make an offer to people that, you know, we’ll give them like a half an hour call to answer questions of things-“ 

Karla Nelson:  About their core nature of work, yeah, I remember. 

Allen Fahden:  … about their core nature of work and how they fit together and so forth. The prover says, “Well, you may want to think a little more about that.” We’re saying, “Oh, how come? It’s such a good idea.” “Well, have you thought about that? Let’s say that you get 500 people to … I’m sorry, a thousand people to respond, which would be-“ 

Karla Nelson:  Which would be possible, like you didn’t know the number. Yeah, we didn’t know the number, but it was possible. 

Allen Fahden:  And if you have half an hour meeting with each of them, that would be 500 hours of work that you’d be creating. It’s like, “Oh thank you, thank you! 

Karla Nelson:  Why don’t we think this through? There might be a better way to go. And it was great because, Allen, you basically said, “Oh, my gosh. Thank you for being a prover,” instead of, “Why are you poo-pooing our idea?” It’s a completely different way of looking at it. And so now all of a sudden you look at one of the … I know the tactics in there is call attention to people’s mistakes indirectly. That was not an indirect mistake. Our prover basically said, “You guys are nuts.” 

Allen Fahden:  Exactly. And we’re happy to hear it. 

Karla Nelson:  Exactly. Like a lot of times, it’s like, “No, this is the idea. This is why we’re in …” People get so stuck with the idea that they’re not open and appreciative of the fact that poking holes in it is a good idea and try … And then you go back to why he poked the holes in it and then what happened? You were like, “Oh, you and I kicked ideas around, then what could we do,” and we even changed it again after that and improved it again after there were challenges, remember? 

Allen Fahden:  And got it down to four hours. 

Karla Nelson:  Exactly, because we were going to do four different webinars and we ended up doing a process of one and then going. And so that came from the prover as well. Again about the same project, but a different meeting where we still came up with ideas and then he poked more holes on it. And it’s like, “All right, you’re right. That’s great. We didn’t think about that. There’s a better way to do it.” 

Allen Fahden:  It’s like because it makes it safe and we’ll say more about that. 

Karla Nelson:  Yes, exactly. Yeah, because we’ll get into some of the tactics here. And I have brought it up several times now about the tactics, and the tactics are great. There’s like probably about 50 of them in this book. I mean, it is talk full of how you can engage with somebody and make them feel important really. And so it’s Maya Angelou, people don’t care what you know until they know how much you care. That’s really like a great way of encapsulating this book, and think about that in 1934. 

But the way if you look at this, and I’m looking at it not from personality by the way, because the book leans a bit towards personality even though it’s a complete business book these days, or work, some type of work, corporate business, whatever. But it’s about how people communicate together. Business, the object of the exercise is to get something done. 

Let’s take a moment and go through a couple of these tactics, Allen, and look at how you can overlay it looking from their core nature of work instead of all these tactics that you tried to get somebody to do naturally, which is not natural to their core nature of working. It’s like pushing a parked car to ask somebody to be who they are not in the work. And you’re actually making the work either harder or mediocre, or you’re not getting the most of somebody’s brilliance. 

And so one of the ones that I just laughed at, and I thought of you, Allen, while I was reading through the book, is let the other person feel like the idea is his or hers. 

Allen Fahden:  Yeah, hell, no. 

Karla Nelson:  For shakers, that’s a death sentence. 

Allen Fahden:  Yeah. That would be like the flight attendant who says, “When the oxygen mask drops down, first, put it on your own face and then you put it on your child’s face.” 

Karla Nelson:  Exactly. 

Allen Fahden:  And this is like, “When the oxygen mask drops down, just hand it to another person and don’t take one for yourself.” That would be the equivalent to that to a shaker. 

Karla Nelson:  Yeah, and shakers, they imprint it. And imprinting is good. 

Allen Fahden:  Yeah, absolutely. And so that’s a way that a shaker, it’s always got to be my idea. What does that mean? If a prover raises a problem with somebody else’s idea and I solve the problem, that would be a … Let’s go back to the last example, it would be like it’s going to take 500 hours. And then so you say, “Well, let’s do a webinar instead and then now you own part of that idea because you’ve imprinted it.” 

The response- 

Karla Nelson:  And that’s a good point. I think it happens on the shaker and the prover side. Not so much the mover and maker because they’re the doers and they just want it done. They don’t really care whose idea it is as much as the shakers. But provers like to, they imprint when they could pick the holes in it which is just another idea. We look at it as, “Oh, that’s naysayer.” No, it’s just an idea. And then the shakers use ideas to overcome those obstacles. 

I think this one is really interesting for, and it’s opposite to shakers and provers. Just understanding that, so if I went to Allen and said, “Hey, Allen, you need to say every idea is somebody else’s idea.” That’s like saying, “Yeah, you’re brilliant? Yeah, work against it every single day.” 

Allen Fahden:  Yeah. That would be worse than a pay cut. 

Karla Nelson:  Yeah. And as I was reading through for the mover, one of the ones that just stuck out to me that I was like, “Oh, my gosh. If I had to do this, I will die,” is dramatized your ideas. The whole point is making it a drama to like make it a story to bring people into your story of this big picture, amazing thing that we could just … I was like, “Oh gosh.” 

Allen Fahden:  Yeah. That’s another anathema. It’s like what are you going to do, a five-act play on this idea? Movers want to get the schedule done, set the priorities, get the team going, get all the rules established, all the handoffs established. Let’s go. Who’s got time to do that? 

Karla Nelson:  Yeah, but you know what? A lot of shakers might be really good at that. 

Allen Fahden:  Yeah. Shakers would love that, and that would be fun. Again, people are different. 

Karla Nelson:  Yeah, so understanding that and not asking a mover. If you literally ask a mover to dramatize their ideas, they’re going to roll their eyes and say, “I already worked through this. Set the priorities. What do we need to talk about here? I do not need to sell you on this big storyboard associated with. Let’s just get busy. I’m wasting a half hour of time here, people.” 

Allen Fahden:  That’s right. One size fits all is one of the big flaws in this. 

Karla Nelson:  Yeah, good point. 

Allen Fahden:  And at that time, it probably wasn’t a flaw because it was probably pretty revolutionary to people. 

Karla Nelson:  And I completely agree with you. Knowing people’s core nature of work, I don’t think you need to dramatize anything if you include everybody. Because we need you all, we need you at different times. And if we look at you in your brilliance, what’s going to happen is nobody has to dramatize anything. Why? Because everybody had a part of it, like you don’t have to dramatize yourself. You’re the one who already was a part of creating it. And that’s truly- 

Allen Fahden:  We buy what we create. 

Karla Nelson:  Yes, exactly. What do I always say? We what, what we build. We support what we build. 

Allen Fahden:  Support what we build, yeah. 

Karla Nelson:  Exactly. Another one that I saw in this one, and I brought it up earlier because it was hilarious is with the prover and one of the tactics in the book was call attentions to people’s mistakes indirectly. 

Allen Fahden:  Yeah. Oh, boy. That would be like somebody saying, “Well, someone here forgot to make the phone call.” Talking about passive aggressive. 

Karla Nelson:  That’s how it feels. Why do you do it indirectly? Just say, “I think you haven’t thought about that,” just direct. And I think here, a part of this is that when you run the WHO-DO to critique, and I think what they were talking about here is not critiquing the person. But when you run the process, you’re critiquing the idea, so it makes it completely safe. 

Allen Fahden:  And you’re also referring to people’s mistakes before they happen, so that no individual made these mistakes. We’re just talking about the danger of what could go wrong, so it’s not a person involved there. It’s just what can we do to improve this idea. 

Karla Nelson:  And there goes Deming. 94% of failure is process failure, not people failure. And remember, we didn’t have all the processes and the systems and the technologies back in 1934. I think, again, we’ve got to look at the timing of the book, but somebody reading it today is going to look through the lens of 2019, not however long ago. 

Let’s move on to the maker. This one was really interesting because this tactic is totally easy for a maker but probably not as easy for other core natures of work, which is let the other person do a great deal of the talking. Like that’s easy. That’s what makers want. 

Allen Fahden:  Yeah, so that fits it. That fits a maker. But it’s also in some ways it’s set up for awkward silences. 

Karla Nelson:  Good point. With the maker, it would be awkward silence. Just like when you’re in a meeting and you put a maker on the spot, “What you think?” 

Allen Fahden:  Yeah, “What are your ideas about this, Fred?” And Fred goes, “Well …” Instead, what if we again celebrate the other person for what they’re great at in their core nature and what they do naturally. And so a conversation with a maker, if you want to have a real conversation is, and the maker can start this off by asking the questions like, “What do you need done? How many, by when? What are my instructions?” 

Karla Nelson:  And then he’d let the other person do all the talking. That’s perfect, exactly. And so understanding who you are and then understanding who everyone else on your team is, so you’re not talking to a one-size-fits-all like you said earlier. 

Allen Fahden:  And when they’re asking those questions, how many, by when, what do you need done, what are my instructions, make sure you’re asking to a prover because otherwise you’re not going to get detailed enough instructions to really get anything- 

Karla Nelson:  Yeah, there’s another good point. In that context, core nature of work in getting things done, the maker understanding the question they need to ask, letting somebody else do all the talking, but make sure that person’s the prover because that’s just the movers just going to go crazy that they want that much detail. 

Allen Fahden:  Right. 

Karla Nelson:  That’s how it’s unique to everyone. All the tactics are fantastic. It’s not a one-size-fits-all and every tactic is not going to be natural to everyone. You can learn from it and try to understand it’s good to treat people well. But when you’re focused on getting things done, everybody being happy and singing kumbaya and having a potluck on Friday, like I always say, the object of the exercise is to get something done. And a part of that is understanding who you are, a big part, who you are as your core nature of work and who everybody else is. 

Allen Fahden:  Yeah. It kind of reminds me of the difference between the Golden Rule, which we all know about. And then I think it was Tony Alessandra who introduced the Platinum Rule. The difference between those two, the Golden Rule is something like this: Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. That’s a great idea, and the Golden Rule was pretty much the motto of the day when this book came out. But there’s even an improvement on that. And I think that’s what we’ve been talking about today. And that’s the Platinum Rule, which is do unto others the way they would want to be done to. 

Karla Nelson:  Yeah, good stuff. Love it. Awesome. This is a great podcast. I love this stuff. I love this. I love going through these books and looking at it from a different lens and revisiting them as they were all, some of my very, very, very favorite business books as they were yours. Well, we’re going to wrap it up for today. Thanks so much for being here again, Allen. It’s always a great conversation going back and forth and supporting our listeners and understanding The WHO-DO Method. 

We are now in the beta test of our WHO-DO assessment, so we are going to put that in the show notes. You can also go to the PeopleCatalysts.com. Again, that is plural and in the show notes on the website and we’ll probably include it on social media for a limited time and a limited number. We’re not sure how long it will last. The beta test is going to be free. This is an assessment we typically charge $60 for. 

Take advantage of it. It will let you know, are you a mover, shaker, prover, maker? And of course, we don’t bring up oners very often. This is 1% of the population that can move through all four core natures of work. They are the 1% that 100% of the work is made for. 

Allen Fahden:  And the 100% of that book was written for. 

Karla Nelson:  Good point. Most books. And so we are on the mission to revolutionize the way work is done and we hope you enjoy that. Feel free to give us any feedback and we will be in touch. Until next time, my friend, we’ll talk to you soon.